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THE TRUTH ABOUT: Incel friends actual problem dont get - The Untold Story
We're living in a 'Male Loneliness Epidemic.' At least, that's the story some men are telling us - and themselves.
Proudly identifying as involuntary celibates, or incels, they're unable to find a partner, and believe that women and societal norms are to blame. Some swear they're victims of modern feminism, others have a "black pill" philosophy - meaning, in their minds, their lack of romantic success is entirely genetic or unchangeable. Whatever the reason, these so-called incels claim to be suffering alone through no fault of their own. But not everyone is buying it...
Someone asked netizens with incel friends or acquaintances, "What is the actual problem that they just don’t get?" and thousands of people didn't hold back. There are, according to the comments, men who have wildly warped ideas about women, there's one who'll only settle for a "petite, Japanese virgin," another who is apparently a "straight-up creep" and many others who simply don't understand that the call is coming from inside the house. Bored Panda has put together the most telling responses that pour cold water on the lies incels tell themselves and us.
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#1
I was close with this guy in college who, though he probably wouldn't say it, is an incel. Total neckbeard 'oh why aren't girls into me' kind of thing. He was convinced it was because he was overweight and nerdy and that women were too shallow to see what a great guy he was. But here's the thing, fat people get laid all the time. If they are a fun, cool, kind (not nice) person, then you shouldn't have a problem. The one thing he, and probably most incel/neckbeards/nice guys need to hear is a quote from the movie The Social Network "But you're going to go through life thinking that girls don't like you because you're a nerd. And I want you to know, from the bottom of my heart, that that won't be true. It'll be because you're an a*****e.".
GPawesomeness 9 hours ago
My best friend from a very young age was always obese. She was not happy about not getting the men she wanted and complained about it. I told her that I have not ever seen her pursue a man that was obese, so what does that say about you? Platonic and romantic are two different things.
It started as an internet subculture and has morphed into a problematic movement that's often associated with misogyny, violence, and gender inequality. Incels, or involuntary celibates, believe they can't form intimate or romantic relationships through no fault of their own.
They blame their looks, social structures, their status in society, and most of all women for their own failure to launch. Some even claim we are in a 'Male Loneliness Epidemic.' There are entire online forums and spaces where incels gather to commiserate with each other.
"They create echo chambers full of slang, memes, and shared frustrations," notes Plan International, a global children’s charity working towards advancing equality for girls.
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#2
He doesn't fit the typical "incel" category - the dude is f*****g jacked. He actually helped me when I started lifting.
However, he is dumb as a box of rocks, and has zero personality. Like, none at all. He... likes cars? That's about the only thing that I think is genuinely his *thing*. The rest is just random bits of machismo that he's incorporated into his "image".
This is because he doesn't seem to think of women as *people*. He feels like there's a list of things that, if you achieve them, you will get a woman (like in the mail, I guess, since he never goes to social places and doesn't do online dating).
His muscles? They're to impress women. The truck he can't afford but drives anyway? It's to impress women. The s****y beard? Yep. It's to impress women. He also carries a too-large knife everywhere, hangs half-naked Playboy posters on his walls, wears boots and a cowboy hat (though had never left the city), etc.
I've tried explaining that, muscles or not, no woman wants someone who is so obviously fake. I don't even know what you're into besides lifting and cars. He seems to show interest in my geeky hobbies, but never take me up on my offers to join because "nah, man, I'm not nerdy." *Except he asks about them constantly.*
I really feel bad for him. He's a 25 year old man who has a good job and takes care of himself. If he'd drop the d**n act for 30 f*****g seconds, I bet some girl would love to date him.
Edit: so apparently this resonates with people. To answer a few common comments:
* He is (probably) not gay. He has had a few women show interest, and he immediately texts them far too much and takes it to a s****l place way too quickly. I've seen the texts. With his poor spelling and grammar, he sounds like a g*****n serial k**ler via text. This usually causes them to run for the hills really quickly. This is upsetting to him. He does seem to honestly want to date women, and he does a decent job of attracting them initially, but he cannot "stick the landing."
* His "personality" is a hodgepodge of random masculine ideals. It's very clear that they're not who he is, he's just associated those things with success with women. This is especially noticable during those texts, as he shoehorns those things into every conversation.
* He makes a big deal about the women he wants. They should be short, white, large-breasted s*x fiends, who are also virgins, and are fiercely loyal. The last one that he was texting was a Hispanic single mother of two (from two different dads). She was a sweet girl who was very pretty, but did not meet his self-proclaimed "standards".... To which he didn't seem to mind.
* Nerdy hobbies: he plays some video games. Mostly racing games. He seems to be interested in tabletop games, but won't come to game night. It's very clear that he's scared of being judged for these hobbies.
* It's worth mentioning that we're in the south, and he's from a city in the deep South.
* The truck: it's huge, brand new and costs ~$900/month between gas, insurance and the payment. He can *technically* afford it, but he has to give up a *lot* to do so (he's making ~40k).
Finally, I may have convinced him to take down the d**n posters. I haven't been to his place in awhile, but he seemed to be agreeing with me about how off-putting they would be to women (not that one has ever gotten that far). Now we just have: dress like a person (not a cigarette ad), talk to women like they're people (not mobile v**inas), and learn to show interest in things outside of the stereotypical "manly" things you follow. Baby steps, though.
#3
Not a friend or an acquaintance, but my uncle. The man is almost 60. He has never lived outside of his parents' house and, despite having a nursing degree, not only has never had a job but has never once had a day where he didn't refuse to look for one. His hobbies are literally to drink in his room, jack off, and stake out random places in town to catch people doing something he doesn't like (littering, wearing something "inappropriate", etc) and get their license plate number so he can harass them. Oh, but don't worry! He hides behind payphones and any other method he can use to be a coward. His car? A 2018 Chevy Cruze his mother pays for. His excuse for never looking for a job, by the way, is because his back hurts. No injuries or any health issues, it just hurts. S***w finding a desk job, his back hurts there as well even though he can spend 4-8 hours sitting in his car doing f**k all.
He's also an insufferable bigot with his opinions on top of being one of those people who has to know literally everything about everyone and doesn't know how not to start a fight or say something that isn't belligerent. He constantly whines about never once having a girlfriend "because they're all wh*res who like pieces of s**t instead of good guys that will treat them right". What he doesn't get is he can't get a women because he is... him. Not a single thing redeemable about him and I haven't even scratched the surface in describing just how worthless and despicable a human being he is. I seriously don't know what this idiot is going to do when his mother dies as she does everything for him.
Among the core elements of the incel movement are resentment toward women who are seen as shallow or manipulative, and hostility toward men who are perceived as more attractive or successful with women. Many incels also the share the view that it’s predetermined they will never date.
Plan International's experts do say that not all incels support violence. However, they add, the culture often normalises misogyny, self-pity, and blame. "This reinforces a sense of being a victim. Instead of helping them grow or connect better."
#4
I'm a huge nerd of girl, so I've met plenty of those kinds of guys, I've tried to help and they don't or won't listen when I tell them "maybe your personality could be better? you're pretty hateful sometimes", "girls won't flock to you the more sexist jokes you make and treating women like idiots that can't enjoy comic books(or insert other thing)". You tell them to dress nicer, bathe, clean up their appearance, clean and cut their hair and style it and they think you're trying to turn them into a "normie". Like you can pull off the whole nerd look without being a stinky hamburger scented raggamuffin.
Blix 8 hours ago
And even if a guy does everything she's suggesting, that still is no coupon or free ticket to attention from women. That's just not how the real world works. The more I hear from incels the more I just want to help them understand that no one owes them anything. Life is harder for some than others, and always has been, and always will be.
#5
My friend was me, 8 years ago.
22 years old, virgin, never even had a "let's hold hands" middle school relationship. Played a lot of online video games and exclusively hung out with dudes doing "dude stuff."
One day a switch flipped for me and I decided I would force myself to go out and meet people despite my social anxiety. I had been invited to a party by an acquaintance, and even better I knew that he had some female friends. Having been bullied my whole childhood (especially by girls) I was pretty convinced that people hated me and that I should just stay home from everything. I was convinced that I should avoid women because they all just wanted to make me feel like s**t about myself. Having never had a normal conversation, much less a relationship, with a girl my age, I didn't understand them as normal people and I hated them all (even though I didn't know it). It is a terrible and deeply conflicting feeling to long for any sort of relationship with women while simultaneously blaming and fearing them. This is the torment that a lot of men in this position mistakenly think will be solved if they could only get a girlfriend.
Within a month of going to this party I was playing way fewer video games and I had some new friends that I would meet up with to do stuff, including female ones. I quickly lost all my preconceived b******t about guys vs. girls and "what women want" and all that because I was finally interacting with normal people instead of getting my social experiences vicariously through media and hearsay. It also helped that I was not in constant contact with my nerdy high school friends anymore, because we were such an insular bubble that we couldn't grow beyond our own little group. I was finally letting myself grow and putting myself "out there" (aka at risk of terrible rejection as my socially anxious mind would have me believe).
Years later I am a (kind of) normal, friendly, well-adjusted person with a healthy romantic relationship and plenty of friends. I am also a LOT less angry in general. I think a lot of my "incel" years were due to a combination of not knowing the world and the fears that come with it. I attributed a lot of my problems to the lack of women in my life, and while that was a source of the problems, it wasn't for the reasons I would have believed at the time.
I think an important thing people miss with guys in this situation is that I didn't need a girlfriend. Sure, I wanted one, but what I needed was a friend that was a girl. I needed contact with women in a way that humanized them for me and allowed me to feel as if there were women in the world who could tolerate me. The only woman who had ever shown me anything other than disgust had been my mother. Many women later in my life would be confused by this when I didn't want relationships with them, most famously when I became good friends with 4 women who, months into our friendship, asked me directly "which one of us are you trying to f**k? We can't figure it out." They were perplexed when I said "none of you, I just need friends that are women." I wanted to be friend zoned, because that meant I had friends. I realized that having female friends was the missing link for me. I liked women. I could talk about cooking and colors and flower arranging and other "girly" stuff with them. I didn't have to live in some alternate universe of false masculinity. It was like half of me had been shut off my whole life and was suddenly allowed to see the light of day. My anger was towards the culture that had created this separation, and not women at all.
I think growing up without any female friends, being bullied by girls through mid/high school because I was nerdy, and the general toxic culture that young men are raised in led me to a bad place. I think a society that holds boys and girls apart from a young age and teaches them a bunch of false b******t about the "other" group is the root of the issue. It was only once I forced myself to just go out and talk to people that I found women to be much more relatable and I rapidly improved the way I thought of them and acted around them.
#6
That it's ok for other people to have opinions, fears, or their own way of doing things. Other people aren't them, but they don't get that.
We were hanging out at a party, so, me, my wife, a bunch of friends both men and women. One of the Women was talking about how she drives to and from school because she is a afraid of the walk late at night. I don't blame her, if I was a woman I wouldn't make that walk either. It isn't lighted and the neighborhood isn't great. This guy could not get why she doesn't walk, and rather than just chalking it up to "she isn't me so who gives a f**k" he just had to press the issue. "You could carry pepper spray... or a knife... it's not that far... really how likely is it that something is going to happen...".
This, man, this is why women want nothing to do with you. You, deep down, believe that they only exist in your world and not their own.
So where did it all begin? It would seem that incels started appearing online in the early 1990s. Ironically, it was a woman who first used the term "involuntary celibate."
In 1993, a Canadian student by the name of Alana introduced us to the term on her personal website ‘Alana’s Involuntary Celibacy Project’. It was meant to be a welcoming online space for anyone facing challenges in romantic or intimate relationships. Members used it to share stories of heartbreak, discuss social anxieties, and write articles.
#7
The reason they can't get laid is that their standards are too high. That's it. My incel friends are looking for perfection without realizing that they are poor jobless a******s. You're not going to end up with a rich 22 year old model heiress who buys you a lambo and brings her friends over to group s*x you.
My Incel Friend: I can't get laid, this s***s.
Me: That girl over there is totally into you.
Incel friend: She's not my type.
WHAT THE F**K DUDE. Honestly at this point even though he claims it's not his fault, I'm sorry, you're celibate by choice, bro.
Online, I see a lot of incels who are really misogynist haters. Those guys don't get laid because they're giant a******s and they'd rather blame every single woman on earth than accept that maybe, *just maaaybe*, the problem is them. Take a deep breath, step back, and try to give a s**t about another human being for a change. It's not concern trolling when someone tells you to try listening to the girl for a change. It's just concern. You're some creepy m***********s right now and the only person who can do anything about that is you.
fly on the wall 5 hours ago
They don't get "laid" because that is the "problem". It may be a big revelation but a relationship with the opposite s*x is not poking your p***k into any available orifice: it is because they, like every other human, are interesting folk whose company you can genuinely enjoy for its own sake.
#9
My roommate recently said to me "if she even has a little bit of body fat, that's a deal breaker" and it's not that he doesn't get laid, but it's been probably 5 years since he had s*x that he didn't fly to southeast Asia for.
He has a d**d end job and no degrees or marketable skills but wants to make more money so he can date hot girls. I offered to recommend him for an entry level job at the giant corporation where I work but he turned out down because the hours were too early.
The actual problem is that his only criteria for a partner is looks and he doesn't bring that much to the table himself.
Fast-forward to the 2000s, and incels had infiltrated forums like Reddit and 4Chan, where they shared their collective frustrations. "These online spaces became popular and more dominated by men. They also became more misogynistic. Strict hierarchies were formed, along with extreme resentment towards women," explains Plan International's site.
Within a decade, there were dedicated sites like Incels.me and subreddits such as r/incels. These became a breeding ground for anti-feminist hatred, and radical discussions. In 2017, Reddit banned r/incels due to its ‘violent content’.
#10
Short version: Unrealistic expectations
She must look like a supermodel post-airbrushing at all times, be a virgin, cook, clean, and generally being treated like a possession, while putting up with a dude that can't remember when he last showered, and isn't sure if the underoos he's wearing were clean when he put them on.
That, and the guy has the personality of a wet cat. I mean seriously, a grown man that behaves like the "Mean Girl" From the latest Disney tween-dramedy. It would be hilarious If he weren't so annoying, and well...offensive to the senses.
Seriously, F**knuts, take a f*****g shower. With soap. At least once a day, Wash clothes at least once a week.
Signed, Literally f*****g everyone at work.
*PS: Sara isn't a stuck up b***h. She just won't f**k you because she's got a functioning nose, and well, she's happily married with two kids, a*****e.*.
#11
They see everyone as below them, so they're super condescending and believe it's justified. In a way similar to how you have to talk to a kid in a certain way that's dumbed down, they feel they have to talk to everyone that way. Because they talk to people strategically, they are never genuine with people. Humans have insane intuition and can see right through that. It's really sad to see, because someone can have such a sweet heart but have such a superiority complex and just can't get over it. The only reason they have friends is because it's tolerable to be friends with someone who has a superiority complex; being in a romantic relationship isn't tolerable though, since you end up relying on someone that believes they're higher than you.
#12
I've had a friend for many years. He basically wants a woman in her 30's (he's about 50), who is very religious, a virgin of course, never married, supermodel gorgeous, doesn't have cats, isn't catholic, and doesn't smoke.
At my wedding he drooled all over my thrice-divorced Jewish best friend, because she is gorgeous. Therefore my opinion is that he's just interested in the gorgeous part of that list and the rest would fall by the wayside if he found someone attractive enough.
Researchers warn that harmful incel conversations aren’t confined to the internet. They’re at play in schools, too.
“They spill into classrooms, shaping boys’ attitudes towards girls and women teachers. They normalise sexist behaviour, placing yet more responsibility on teachers to deal with the consequences,” warns an article in The Conversation.
#13
He's actually super thin and lanky. Weird moustache thing going on (not a full beard) and wears sunglasses all the time.
You're not dating anyone because you will never ever find Beyonce booty, Pamela Anderson t*****s, Charlize Theron Waist size, Anne Hathaway face, Taylor Swift popsicle legs, and Nicki Minaj s*x drive in one woman. It's just never going to be a thing. If that person exists, then we're in a new age of Jurassic Park.
You could, however, clean up a bit and go talk to normal girls who have nice jobs as an office receptionist and gets dental.
#14
We are in our mid 20's and it's no longer cool to smoke w**d all day long while rotating between TV, gaming, and eating. I understand your pops is ok with paying your rent and everything right now, but YOU are way too ok with it.
"This is the only time in our lives that I will get time to relax like this before I get a career and I'm always busy... I'm just taking advantage of this stage in my life."
You're 25 bro, that time you are talking about ended about 4 years ago.
#15
*"I choose to be a virgin."* Okay, Edwin. Sure. You're 31 y.o. and a chronic m***urbator. The problem is, my friend is the quintessential neckbeard weaboo. He considers himself an *intellectual* and anyone who doesn't share his beliefs is beneath him. He wants a petite, Japanese virgin. She's gotta be perfect. She has to have a slightly protruding canine tooth because it's *"kawaii."* He's already limited himself to a niche demographic of women, AND he has nothin' to offer except his 1996 Honda Civic DX with 203,000 miles.
So why am I friends with him? I feel bad for the guy. If he shaved his patchy beard, lose 100 lbs., work out regularly, and stop pushing his beliefs onto people, he might actually get a girl. Doesn't have to be a petite, Japanese virgin with a slightly crooked canine tooth...
Luke || Kira (he/she) 22 minutes ago
Idk, I think that not being an insufferable fetishistic weeb would be even more effective than "losing 100 lbs and working out regularly".
#16
One is a straight-up creep. He openly talks about how much he's into lolicon. He wants a girl that looks like she's 12 and also likes all of the neckbeardy hobby stuff that he's into like wargaming and Touhou. He had a girl interested in him once before that he wrote off because she was "too fat" (she was barely chubby) and wants a 10/10 while he himself looks like Gollum.
One is an insufferable sad sack. He constantly self-deprecates with "forever alone" type stuff, b*****s and moans about being a nice guy, gave himself a stupid nickname (Panda), and constantly uses it to refer to himself in the third person.
The last is attractive, funny, sociable, intelligent, and stable. He's tried fixups and online dating, but nothing really works out compatibility-wise. He'll make a great catch for the right lady, he just hasn't had much luck yet.
#17
A relevant rant I posted before about me being that.
1. **What else you got?**
Cool you're nice, you listen, you are there for her. What else you got? Are you driven? Are you responsible? Are you hygienic? Are you fun? Do you have dreams for your own life? Being nice is great when being friends (shut up about friendzone, we'll get there). Why else would your "crush" want to date you? Do you share interests? Can you inspire her or be inspired by her? Can you show that you know how to handle day to day responsibilities? Dating someone is not just serving someone, being the shoulder to cry on, sacrificing everything to meet their needs. It's about taking a journey together, experiencing things. Being nice is good, but it's a start.
I was nice, but I was also a slob. I didn't take care of myself, my clothes, my car, but I expected all that to be overlooked because I was nice. I would bemoan that I was not dating material because I wasn't Clooney or Pitt. Not true. I was not dating material because I didn't bring anything else besides being nice AND because I was a hypocrite...
2. **Hypocrite Much**
I would wail and complain about girls being shallow and not looking past my appearance. My crushes were females that would interact with me....but were also cute. I would expect them to overlook my physical appearance, BUT only pursue women who I deemed attractive. Yes, it's stupid, but I think it's a common double standard. So you look around, see that quiet girl in the library that seems to sit close to you. Do you have a female friend that listens to you complain? There might be someone in your vicinity who feels about you what you feel about your crush, because you are a nice guy? That leads me to....
3. **Where you looking?**
Another mistake I made early on. I would go with my friends to clubs and parties and try to hit on girls....just like they did. I am not going to find someone on physical interactions alone. I build friendships, I'm looking for a longer term emotional relationship, I cannot approach someone and say "Wanna Dance?" and expect any success. Look at what you do, outside of obsessing, figure that out and expand on it. From there find communities that share your interests and socialize, make friends, stop looking for the gorgeous quirky girl that Hollywood promises (all lies) you. You want them to look past your awkward, fugly(this references me) exterior.....you look past your physical standards. It's not about "settling". If you are playing the Nice guy card, then it's about relationships and not one night stands. Looks change, people get old, but finding someone who you can have conversations with, people to share your dreams is probably more important.
4. **Taking the Risk/Non-Risk**
So you're in the "friendzone" with a girl you like. Figure out what you really want and act on it (WITH CAVEATS). BUT don't get creepy and obsessive, this will be a theme. Do you really want to be friends? I mean really really? You value it more than risking it? Then stop talking about dating/obsessing/pining for her. I don't think this really is the case in a lot of situations. I think most of us are just scared and hide behind the above reasoning. The Caveats: She dating, gay, not s******y compatible with you, already had a talk, don't pursue her. Don't press it and don't try to win her over (that has worked BUT it is rare and more likely to be damaging then fruitful(AND STOP LISTENING TO THE LIES MOVIES/TV TELLS US)).
There will always be a risk in exposing your feelings, risk of alienating or changing what you have built. Know this. But, if you get to consumed with your unpronounced love/stuff your really strong emotions you will probably ruin what you have anyway. Here we go...so you've decided to share your feelings...don't be creepy about it...don't do grand gestures or sudden outbursts. Maybe try something along these lines. "Hey, I wanted to take you out on a date. We've been friends and I think it would be fun to take you out for an evening. No pressure or expectations. It's just a chance for the two of us to go out and gives me the chance to treat you nice." States it's a date, hopefully, makes it safe.
The final piece. Learn to be aware or teach yourself about your emotional health. We can be emotional punching bags. Feel that we can take the pain of our friends and the pain of our own longing without repercussions. We can't, not without an outlet, not for the long term. Sometimes WE need to give our friendship distance, if it becomes unhealthy for us OR dangerous/creepy for the other person. Distancing ourselves will hurt, because we feel, which is why we are nice guys. We can take these deep feelings as truth BECAUSE they are so intense. "She's made for me...." "I'm all that she needs in a man....." "Why doesn't she see..." are all dangerous lines of thoughts. We can become obsessive, fragile, untrusting, burnt out, or an incel. Well I've gone on too long, to those who bother to read. I will leave with one saying, "If you feel that nice guys finish last, then you're probably playing the wrong game.".
#18
He's a total stalker and overreacts whenever stressed, and has very little emotional maturity.
#20
Bit of a different strain of incel. He's not opinionated or a sarcastic a*****e or a contrarian. He's the opposite.
He has no opinions, no personality, nothing. He's mild, flavorless, and bland. No passion, no drive. He's either the most boring guy in existence, or the most repressed guy in existence. Either way, that's not exactly going to bring in any girls.
Yeah, he's a nice guy, but that's literally it. No one can say he's a fun guy. No one can say he's an interesting guy. No one can say he's a generous or charitable. He's literally just *nice* and inoffensive.
And when the world is filled with nice and inoffensive guys who are *also* smart/funny/interesting...
Luke || Kira (he/she) 17 minutes ago
Like yeah, I get it that we're all different and I'm respectful about that, but to me, interacting with these passion-less people with no real personality is the most soul-crushing experience. I admit that I'm probably "too much" sometimes, but honestly, you really have NOTHING going on in your life? Anything that makes you utterly excited?
#21
Perceiving yourself as superior to other people will push them away. And if everyone is an a*****e, maybe you should check if you're not the a*****e.
#22
His most fundamental and pernicious belief is that access to s*x will absolve him from any of life's hardships; his depression will instantaneously subside, his arrogance will be perceived as justified, and his indignation towards women will abate.
He perceives his ineptitude with women as an extrinsic problem and women are narcissistic creatures who derive gratification from his unrelenting humiliation. He's accumulating an increasing amount of weight by the day, his general disposition is morose at all times and yet the cause of all this?
Women and unattainable copulation. S*x is not an intrinsic human right but for this incel, he's been deprived of his rights by deprecating roasties.
LakotaWolf (she/her) 7 hours ago
I'd forgotten about the word "roasties". Sigh. It's a derogatory slang term used to refer to women - especially those perceived as promiscuous or "used". Because, you know, their parts "down there" resemble the filling of a roast beef sandwich when they have too much séx /s
#23
I came into this thread looking for a couple interesting stories, wound up seeing a lot of red flags about myself... 26 YO, never been in a serious relationship, perpetually s****y personality, haven't made any real friends outside of work since I took a full time job.
Step one is realizing you have a problem... where do you start with fixing something like this? How do you change something as major about yourself as your personality?
Shelley Hunter 9 hours ago
Possibly take this post to a therapist? Perhaps it's less s***y personality and more low self esteem and defense mechanisms for protection? Or something like that? Also, how do you enjoy spending your time? Hobbies? People need fun things in their life to be happy.
#24
His standards are simply too high. If you are a pudgy, balding guy with bacne who wears socks with sandals and who takes home a cool 50k per year... You aren't going to land a Playboy model. His sights would be more accurately set on, well, really a regular human. But he doesn't see that. I've seen him turn down very nice and intelligent women that were average looking because they were average looking and therefore "not his type". Yeah buddy. You are gonna stay a virgin.
#25
My cousin doesn't understand that women like to take care of themselves, or I guess a lot of them do.
He has only had one girlfriend and she was his first everything. She broke up with him and he hasn't been with anyone since.
Her biggest complaint was that he was consistently needy and showering her with attention all the time. For example, he'd always want to hold hands and feed her and never let her do it herself.
Now he complains that he's too "dark" and fat for any girl to love him (he's in his 30s).
Also super elitist about his interest (horror films) and will say you're an idiot for saying x film wasn't as good (in your opinion) as he thought it was. God, he is so exhausting sometimes.
#26
Coming on way too awkwardly strong, insisting on hugging every girl he sees, non-stop facebook messages and phonecalls even to girls with boyfriends. If she's already dating someone, you're wasting your time dude. He's good looking, if he would stop the borderline-s****l-harassment he'd be dating someone by now.
#27
My stepson is totally an incel. He doesn’t take pride in his appearance or wash his clothes and he wonders why he’s alone. His dad has tried discussing this with him but he just blames everyone else for his lack of ladies. Like once he blamed liberals as a whole. Lol.
Robyn Hill 9 hours ago
Yes, us liberals have stockpiled ALL the laundry soap so he can’t wash his clothes! It’s a total conspiracy!
#28
Incel here. My *actual* problem is my personality. I'm ugly sure but I've seen guys as ugly as me with women somehow. I'm very boring and hold several controversial opinions on issues and some that p**s off both sides of two sided issues.
I'm selfish, self-centered, lazy, and am not capable of empathy.
Optimus Octopus 9 hours ago
Recognizing your flaws is admirable. Choosing to do nothing to improve them is idiotic.
#29
He claims he hasn't always been incel, but for as long as I've known him he's never had a girlfriend or even a passing fling... and it's all because of his personality. Highly opinionated about pretty much everything. Ultra fanboy for certain films (has a vast collection of toys and other memorabilia; Dedicated an entire spare bedroom to the collection).
On the surface he's a nice guy but he goes from 0-60 fast with his terrible opinions.
#30
He doesn't put any effort into his appearance, and doesn't really ever talk to anyone other than me and his two other friends (all male, he's straight). He will occasionally talk about wanting a girlfriend, and we will try to set him up on dates but then he chickens out
Edit: guys, I know he has social anxiety. That doesnt mean he doesn't want to have s*x. Don't you think a lot of people who are involuntarily celibate have some sort of social issues?
#31
My friend has extremely low self esteem and never just goes for it with a girl. he's 25 and still a virgin whos never had a girlfriend in his life but is actually reasonably good looking and would look even better if he lost 30lbs or so and hes a good guy too.
for some reason though he just can't talk with a girl 'properly' ie, flirt at the right times and basically just be yourself kinda thing. he does want a girlfriend badly too, heck hes even drunkenly cried about it to me on one occassion too but his problem is he just hasn't got the balls to even attempt to chat up girls even when hes had a wingman introduce him.
i think one day he'll get a girlfriend though, hes just gotta get out of his shell around women and be himself, go with the flow and simply be more relaxed.
#32
He chases married women and semi celebrities or models. If you're only interested in people who are taken or don't even one you, you're not going to have good results. When we set him up with logical dates "she's not my type." She was actually good looking and the type that needed a "provider"for lack of better words. He has a good job and not an awful personality. Just cringe worthy methods.
#33
I'm a 25 year old virgin. It boils down largely to social anxiety and complete lack of social skills. I stutter when I speak, I have zero confidence, no friends. Isolated for years to the point where I don't know how to properly socialize, I can't communicate my thoughts clearly, extremely high inhibition. I am terrified of failure and judgement so I just never speak to anyone or socialize, never been to a party in my life. I don't think I'm better than other people, I hate myself.
Gail Lott 8 hours ago
You have communicated your thoughts clearly here. You are intelligent and articulate. None of the issues you have listed are a reason to hate yourself. None of them. I understand the fears and the frustrations but be easy with yourself. You may need to find some professional help to guide you and get you started but I believe it will get better for you.
#34
Not really sure, I think maybe his standards are just too high? He has only expressed interest in a handful of women over the years, and they are usually cute skinny white girls that already have plenty of guys interested in them.
#35
There was one dude I met in college, we were partners for a lot of group projects and he'd do his fair share of work so things would go smoothly.
Stuck to him for a while and eventually became decent friends, one day he just opens up about how all women are just snarky b*****s who just sleep around with any f**kboy that owns a two-door. One time we had a group study and one girl mentions that she went out to party/club in the downtown area and had a lot of fun. Mid story he cuts her off and asks "So who did you f**k that night?" in this really disparaging way... girl just looks at him all disgusted and just went back and buried her face in her book. Worst part is it I almost felt like, in his head, he felt good about shutting her up and making her feel bad cause of whatever he thinks of her... I don't know, im still in shock.
#36
Yes, you're nice, but you actually have to talk to a woman to get them to talk back, and maybe leave your house once in a while to meet someone new (or at least sign up for Tinder or something). They won't magically fall into your lap and chat you up if you don't put yourself out there as well.
#37
He claims it's because he doesn't put in the effort and doesn't want to. And while part of that is true, he misses where the big problem is: how he talks. He's a mostly nice guy, maybe a bit weird, maybe a bit too heavily focused on getting laid, but mostly nice. However, he also has the tendency to call women who have had s*x with more than a couple of people "hos.* He also frequently whines about how the only woman he knows that are nerdy like him are lesbians, taken, or ugly. That, and the constant talking about every woman he sees that is even remotely attractive without a filter or volume control so that it's insanely obvious he's talking doesn't help either. Yet he thinks one of the biggest reasons is just that he simply doesn't want to put in the effort.
#38
I had a classmate who I did not know was an incel until he started posting his frustrated rants on Facebook about women.
I would never assume he was an incel because he's not ugly, is not overweight, has a nice personality and is able to keep a fun conversation whenever I spoke with him. It was nope town though when he started making posts on Facebook which were visible to all of his classmates that he friended including me, rambling about why he is single and it is entirely women's fault.
He would repeatedly post the same three things over and over again nearly every single day, in rotation:
Post A: "I'm a nice guy but women make me want to change that. Every woman I've ever known is always sticks herself on some a*****e and leaves people like me high and dry while they complain about how much of an a*****e their boyfriends are and yet never giving nice guys like me a chance."
Post B: "I can't believe how picky women are. Nearly all of them are boring, have no interesting hobbies, or even have anything intellectually poignant to say. If the only interesting idea you have comes from a Taylor Swift song then I don't want to date you. You're boring. I don't want to be the only brains in the relationship."
Post C: "Women say that men are sexist but women objectify men worse then men objectify women. Nearly every conversation I hear girls having in public are always asking two questions: "How big is his d**k?" or "How big is his wallet?" If I were to say out loud, "How big are her t**s?" or "How easy is it to f**k her?" in public I would be chastised by the community. If it is fair for them to chastise men for saying sexist remarks about women then I should be able to chastise women for objectifying men."
If I never knew about these posts I would have accidentally been better friends with him but these posts scared me a lot, and I'm a guy. I can't imagine what it'd be like to be a girl and suddenly find out he's been posting all these things. He's not been reported to the school as far as I know, but nearly every post has been a s**t show with his classmates telling him that he needs to chill the f**k out.
Elladine DesIsles 8 hours ago
I have absolutely never, in 47 years, heard women in public, or anywhere for that matter, saying either "how big is his d**k?" or "how big is his wallet?" Not once. Men (and boys) openly objectifying, harrassing, demeaning and implying threats against women, though? I've been hearing that as long as I can remember.
#39
He was incel, and I think it was getting to a bad place (which he is thankfully out of, now).
He was overweight and didn't take care of himself at all, but still wanted a tiny hot girl with no body fat. You can't eat several pounds of salami and cheese every day and expect to be healthy, or even to smell particularly nice (curdled milk and meat sweats! Hot!).
He nearly ruined countless friendships because he "fell in love" with every single woman in our friend group at some point and was sad/jealous when they had SOs, and was angry if they became single and didn't immediately fall into his arms.
He had very narrow interests and was NOT at all open to other opinions, even though he'd always talk about how open-minded he was. If your opinion differed, he'd shut you down with his opinions or sulky silence (or both!).
He lied about his education level and work, and it was really easy to find out the truth, too. So it just came off as very pathetic.
There was no talking to him then. He would just say that he should be loved exactly as he was and should never have to change anything about himself, ever. You can't reason with someone who believes that.
#40
Where does the Japanese obsession come from?
I moved to Japan over 10 years ago and I've heard about the weeaboos, but I don't think I've ever actually met one in real life. Not here or in other countries I've lived in like the UK or Australia.
Why Japan in particular rather than any other country? Why is it always anime?
Luke || Kira (he/she) 2 minutes ago
A lot of this stems from misogynistic ideas. A stereotypized Japanese woman has a lot of "desirable" traits (petite, youthful-looking, 'trad', submissive, quirky cute) and a lot of anime reinforces those ideas. It's also the "exotic" appeal of Japanese women which is, in fact, a form of racism (fetishizing an entire culture).
#41
I have a friend who's 20 that's never kissed a girl yet. I don't really think it's his fault. He's short, very skinny, and Chinese which makes online dating quite difficult. Super nice and funny guy, and he doesn't seem to let it get him down.
LakotaWolf (she/her) 7 hours ago
My now-ex is Chinese and we were together for 25 years. He's also not exactly tall. XD I was his first girlfriend. Culturally sometimes the Asian upbringing can be very restrictive - my ex used to tell me that his parents had him in so many sports, extracurriculars, and clubs that he had no time for dating and hadn't even considered it. I was the pursuer in our relationship, actually XD We met at the game store I worked at (we have similar nerdy interests.) I think OP's friend is fine - he doesn't sound like an "incel".
#42
Unclear since it's me but, I'm probably just really boring.
Honestly the highlight of my typical week is when I build an elaborate excel template at work it's not exactly like i can talk about that with other people.
Plus I just don't go out often enough. My hobbies are jogging, reading and video games so for the most part I don't really have anywhere to go that I enjoy being.
In actuality i'm pretty content with my life but, I'm definitely not where I am because of a conscious choice. Just most of the situations/places where I would meet someone aren't very interesting to me so I avoid them.
#43
Friend of mine is like this. 400lbs, zero girl experience, pushing 40, only interested in 21yo waitresses.
I think he just bought into this tv-show idea that if you are a "good person" you will be found and dated by a hot girl. Kind of the plot to every 80s movie when he grew up. Now it's been so long he'd have to change his whole worldview to do anything about it and that's too scary/painful, so he just sits and gets heavier and older without changing. It's heartbreaking for me and his other friends, but we can't help someone who won't help themselves.
#44
It's weird. He's not quite an incel or a nice guy, but his method is very nice guy-ish. He'll latch onto women, who, 90% of the time, have a boyfriend, be their really close friend and then just never say how he feels. Then, after a long enough time passes, gets frustrated that his friendship hasn't persuaded the girl into a relationship with him, just cuts off contact and goes into another cycle of extremely passive-aggressive depression. He does this because "I don't want to be mean to them and cut them off forever, but I hope that by not being around, I hope they'll want me again and reconsider their choices". I haven't spoken to him personally since we graduated college, but if his his facebook rants are any indication, he hasn't changed much the last two years.
#45
The roleplay-esque, transparently self-pitying language. If you end sentences with a period and finish with the word "meh" or "yeah," I will assume you spend your spare time braiding your neckbeard. I had a friend who would type like this:
Him: yeah. So. That's life I guess. Eh.
Me: hahaha yeah that's how it goes!
Him: yeah. Eh. Meh. :p
It drove me nuts in a way I'm having a hard time articulating. It's just so RESIGNED, in exactly the incel way. He's making it as clear as possible through his typing that his life s***s and will continue to suck and all I can do is comfort him.
#46
I have a friend who is 22 and a virgin. In his case, there’s not really anything wrong that he’s doing. He’s just in a cr**py situation that keeps him from being able to meet new people and be social. It’s more circumstance than anything for him. I doubt he will have any trouble when he’s in a better place.
He’s the only one I know of (as in, an older guy who hasn’t had s*x) but from what I can gather from ones I have heard of, they are usually super socially impaired.
For example, my friend has a 21 year old friend who is a virgin. He dated one girl years ago and they never had s*x. He hasn’t dated since.
He decided to flunk out of school, drink a lot and hang mostly around guys. He wants to hook up but won’t make a Tinder. He wants to ask out girls but doesn’t. He won’t even speak to most women. But then he b*****s that it just isn’t happening for him.
Well, things don’t just happen. You gotta do it..
#47
I just wonder if they'd do better if they said s***w it and gave every chick a shot instead of having a "type." I date girls that don't meet my standards all of the time and I do okay.
#48
That they’re trying to enforce their power over me. They just refuse to put themselves in my shoes and imagine someone following them around, always trying to manipulate them and push back on their limits.
#49
I grew up fairly social and always had a very tight knit circle of friends. It was only when I was a teenager did I realize my parents weren't very social people, they liked hanging out with each other than with fellow parents and neighbors. My brother turned out like them, and had a tough time keeping friends because of his tendencies to push his strong opinions on most things. We were raised in a K-12 school so he couldn't even get the chance to change his image and personality to new people. He retreated further and further into solidarity, doing most things either alone or only with family members like me.
But when I graduated highschool, my new friends in college never stuck. Maybe I kept comparing them to the childhood, lifelong friends that I was so fortunate to have, but on my darker days, I wonder if maybe I also took after my parents after all.
#50
Wait, is an incel a guy who just can't get laid or is it a guy who can't get laid and hates all women because of it?
Because if it's the former, it's very odd that reddit would have such a hardon for s******g on people who have confidence or self image problems.
What do you think ?
David Morgan 7 hours ago
There seem to be two basic 'types' described in these posts. 1) An unfortunately single person, who would actually make a good partner for someone if they could get over their own lack of confidence or self-loathing. 2) A person who is single, not because they don't attract women, but because they repel EVERYONE. They are either deliberately or obliviously unpleasant, unwilling to change, and angry that everyone else doesn't adapt to how ghastly they are. Only type 1 can realistically be changed - type 2 wants everyone else to change and themselves to stay the same.
grotesqueer 2 hours ago
I think the underlying issues with every incel (actual incels, not just unlucky people that happen to remain single) is that they don't consider women people. Everything else, like the unrealistic standards, are the result of that view.
Megalodon Meg 9 hours ago (edited)
Not even reading this list, I know it will only p**s me off just came here to say if you are friends with an incel, you're just an enabling p.rick too and part of the problem. Honestly, guilt by association. If you can tolerate being friends with someone with views like this, you're clearly not a good person either. Bye.
David Morgan 7 hours ago
There seem to be two basic 'types' described in these posts. 1) An unfortunately single person, who would actually make a good partner for someone if they could get over their own lack of confidence or self-loathing. 2) A person who is single, not because they don't attract women, but because they repel EVERYONE. They are either deliberately or obliviously unpleasant, unwilling to change, and angry that everyone else doesn't adapt to how ghastly they are. Only type 1 can realistically be changed - type 2 wants everyone else to change and themselves to stay the same.
grotesqueer 2 hours ago
I think the underlying issues with every incel (actual incels, not just unlucky people that happen to remain single) is that they don't consider women people. Everything else, like the unrealistic standards, are the result of that view.
Megalodon Meg 9 hours ago (edited)
Not even reading this list, I know it will only p**s me off just came here to say if you are friends with an incel, you're just an enabling p.rick too and part of the problem. Honestly, guilt by association. If you can tolerate being friends with someone with views like this, you're clearly not a good person either. Bye.
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